If evolutionary ladder is true, it would lead a Christian to ask such a question. After all it takes millions of years for a species to evolve. Whereas human species came just recently -- and therefore the Fall , the path leading to this human species must be filled with debris of other species fallen in the way, either through natural death or being killed and eaten by other species. But can there be animal death before the Fall?
There is a religion called Jainism in India, started long before Jesus Christ was born. Monks belonging to this religious belief cover their mouth and nose with a piece of cloth -- like doctors and nurses do in the hospital. They are against taking of life of any animal. Since they believe that when we inhale, we take in so many micro-organisms leading to their death, they are very particular about covering their mouth and nose. I think when Adam and Eve, before the Fall, inhaled they caused the death of so many micro-organisms. Or when they stepped on the fertile soil of Eden, they would be stepping on micro-organisms leading to their death. So it's little implausible to think that there would have been no animal death at all before the Fall.
On the other hand when I see wild dogs or hyenas biting into the flesh of wildebeest even before the latter dies, it is disturbing. Was there such kind of thing before the Fall? If it was there, it seems to be ugly; to be awful. And the text in Genesis seems to say that animals were vegetarian before the Fall. But again Psalms 104.21, which is often seen as an exposition of Genesis 1, seems to have no problem with God providing hungry lions with their prey. I don't think the Psalmist was a fool to have missed the text that seemingly says animals before the Fall were vegetarians. The question then that we need to ask ourselves is whether we are asking/reading the text different from what the Psalmist was doing. I think the answer to the problem of death before the Fall lies in answer this question!
Hi,
ReplyDeleteI am a christian from south India . I have been following your blog intermittently and find your thoughts insightful.
I have been also thinking about the question of mortality for some time now. The very concept of death seems unnatural and wasteful. But i think theistic evolutionists maintain that there is no reason we should consider ourselves so important. They have accepted death as a natural thing even pre fall. On some days I feel a sympathy for that view. But there is still that nagging unsatisfactory feeling..
But unfortunately my real problem with standard christian theology is that I can't make sense of the fall itself. I have no difficulty understanding my fallen nature. But problem lies in accepting the christian explanation for that. Calling me a sinner for something done by my ancestor just doesn't make any sense to me. Neither does giving me a sinful nature/tendency to sin for something done by Adam make any better sense. I haven't really come across any good solution to this problem in my reading/thinking . But I am just a lay christian who is greatly interested in the big questions but has almost no knowledge of proper academic theology. Any thoughts?
To explain the corruption that affects all of us because of what one person did in the past,I think, it's important to appreciate the idea of solidarity that permeates through the created order. For example, if we human cut too many trees, it affects the birds and animals too, not just the humans and the trees. Let me also give another example. Sometimes we read something to the effect that the British take pride in the fact that they fought Hitler's army tooth and nail in WW II and thus prevented Hitler from taking over Europe. Fair enough! But if the people are going to be proud of what their ancestors did, then the same people also have to own up the crime that their ancestors did. They cannot say that they will invoke 'solidarity' on good things and yet cut off this solidarity on bad things. One more example to illustrate about solidarity. Unlike many of his friends, Sunil's grandfather did not go around and sleep with the prostitutes. And so Sunil's grandad remained healthy though all his colleagues contracted syphilis and brought pain and hardship to their spouse and children. Here we that someone's inaction or action produces different effects on the later generation.
ReplyDeleteThough it's true that we have our own individuality, I think, the whole of cosmic order has some sort of solidarity. This is the reason why what one person did in the past affects all of us. And what I do now or refrain from doing will have bearing on others too.
Thank you for your response :) It's good to have some one to talk to regarding these matters. In my circle no one is really interested in all my questions!!
ReplyDeleteI agree with you regarding the solidarity point. We experience our present reality in a contingent manner. That is to say our lives are influenced by a great deal of factors over which we have no control or choice. Our lives are deeply embedded in a social reality. If the fall is seen as part of such a reality I can accept it.
But my problem is that christian doctrine, as I understand it, does not judge man taking into account that social reality. Doesn't the concept of individual judgement presuppose the kind of individualism that you reject? Irrespective of the fact that the cause of my sinful nature is a combination of the fall, society and myself, I will be held as an individual sinner before God as if I am equivalent to Adam who is probably the only person who had any kind of real choice in this matter.
I try to think that given our inherently sinful condition, God looks at how we respond to our own nature. Do we recognize and accept our fallen nature or do we go about proclaiming that all human beings are 'inherently good'
But then again some Christians would say that people say that because they cannot understand the truth because of our sinful nature. And we are back to square one..
I am not quite able to understand fully what you are trying to ask in the second paragraph. But my point was to say that the fall affects us all because there is solidarity of some sort in the whole of cosmic order. (The illustrations were given to explain the idea of solidarity.) It is because of this solidarity with Adam that we find the effect of sin affecting us even when we may not be directly responsible for the cause of a disease or a natural disaster.
ReplyDeleteGood pronounced the creation good...and it was good until Adam fell and stained that goodness. So I would say we are inherently good... and it is because of this goodness that we find so many people doing good thing even when 'new life' is not within. But because we are also stained, we need cleansing.